[12:39] <@yossarian> ric, do you have separate taps for cold and hot water? :)
[12:41] <[ric|wrk]> yes
[12:41] <@yossarian> seriously?
[12:41] <[ric|wrk]> although I don't actually have hot water just now
[12:41] <[ric|wrk]> yes seriously
[12:41] <@yossarian> i thought it was a myth
[12:42] <@yossarian> do you live in an especially old house?
[12:42] <[ric|wrk]> perhaps 80-90 years old I would say
[12:42] <[ric|wrk]> so not overly old
[12:42] <[ric|wrk]> it's a typically british thing to have 2 taps
[12:42] <@yossarian> it's insane
[12:43] <@yossarian> so how do you get the temprature you want? make a little lake at the sink and reuse?
[12:44] <[ric|wrk]> yeh, basically that's about the level of it
[12:44] <moijk> yossarian, he can put his hands under cold warm cold warm cold warm.
[12:44] <[ric|wrk]> I mean there are "combo" taps over here
[12:44] <@neatsun> [ric|wrk]: do they still do it like than in new houses?
[12:44] <[ric|wrk]> some houses
[12:45] <[ric|wrk]> it just depends on the "style" the house is being decorated
[12:45] <[ric|wrk]> but it doesn't seem as odd to us to have two taps as it seems odd to you two ... :)
[12:45] <moijk> if you want to decorate your house as a dump / ghetto. then seperate tabs.. right?
[12:45] <@yossarian> making it uncomfortable to work with water isn't a style :)
[12:45] <@neatsun> it does not really have to do with "style"...it's a usuablity issue :)
[12:46] <@yossarian> that's like... using punch cards on your laptop for style :)
[12:46] <@neatsun> the oddest thing is that you don't see it odd:)
[12:46] <[ric|wrk]> nah, it's been like this for years
[12:46] <[ric|wrk]> everybody is used to it
[12:47] <[ric|wrk]> kinda like driving on the left .. :)
[12:47] * @yossarian cancels all plans to travel to the UK :)
[12:47] <@yossarian> what do you do if you JUST want to wash your hands or face?
[12:47] <@neatsun> [ric|wrk]: it's not really like driving on the left..:) it's not symetrical
[12:47] <@yossarian> choose really hot or really cold?
[12:47] <@yossarian> or wait for the sink to fill up?
[12:48] <Knuy> what is this madness?
[12:48] <[ric|wrk]> yossarian: just fill the sink a little
[12:49] <[ric|wrk]> a little hot, a little cold, a little soap... and HEY you're clean!   :)
[12:49] <@yossarian> i have to say i'm pretty blown away.. when i heard that rumor it was as if i was told people still use feathers for pens
[12:49] <moijk> no wonder english girls are dull / not particular pretty - if they wash their faces every morning in the same sink where they brushed their teeth and where their father washed his feets some minutes ago :P
[12:50] <[ric|wrk]> It's hardly a step back into the dark ages
[12:50] <@yossarian> it's a pretty core usability issue
[12:50] <@yossarian> what about showers?
[12:50] <[ric|wrk]> they are combined
[12:51] <[ric|wrk]> is this British Hygiene Day or something?
[12:51] <[ric|wrk]> :)
[12:51] <@yossarian> no, just confirming a rumor i thought was too imaginary to be true :)
[12:51] <[ric|wrk]> you make it sound like we are on the brink of some new bathroom revalation
[12:52] <[ric|wrk]> look, one tap people... whhooooooo
[12:52] <@yossarian> hehe
[12:52] <[ric|wrk]> consider it a quaint british tradition
[12:53] <@yossarian> i would think it would be a HUGE difference
[12:53] <[ric|wrk]> you know we are full of them
[12:53] <@yossarian> then give me some more crazy pearls like that :)
[12:53] <[ric|wrk]> we put lots of things in pies
[12:54] <[ric|wrk]> give us anything and we put pastry around it
[12:54] <[ric|wrk]> not flakey soux pastry
[12:54] <[ric|wrk]> but thick crust pie pastry
[12:55] <[ric|wrk]> queues... the british LOVE queues
[12:55] <@yossarian> that's really not in the same league as the current topic :)
[12:55] <[ric|wrk]> it gives us order in a social situation
[12:56] <[ric|wrk]> well I don't know what is 'in' the same league as having one or two taps doesn't really affect the populations psyche
[12:57] <moijk> [ric|wrk], i still blame the two tap system for beeing one of the reaons UK never have had miss universe :P
[12:57] <@yossarian> hehe
[12:58] <[ric|wrk]> we won the war with two taps!
[12:58] <[ric|wrk]> heh..
[12:58] <[ric|wrk]> and we've had over 300 years of national stability with two taps
[12:59] <@yossarian> but you still haven't progressed enough to combine the darned things to make it easier to live :)
[13:00] <moijk> yossarian, UK Isn't the home of the Mini's because they like always put comfort first ;)
[13:00] <[ric|wrk]> yeh, see....
[13:00] <[ric|wrk]> em... sort of anyway
[13:01] <@yossarian> i don't know how i can relate this to you... it's like i would tell you that we don't use automatic car ignition here and have to turn a handle a few times :)
[13:01] <[ric|wrk]> yeh, we still use handles
[13:01] <[ric|wrk]> thats in the areas there are cars
[13:02] <[ric|wrk]> most people use horse and cart
[13:02] <@yossarian> don't make fun, this is important :)
[13:02] <[ric|wrk]> the horses have handles to start them though...
[13:02] <@yossarian> and it's much worse, since cars are much less trivial than running water
[13:03] <moijk> hope yossarian won't put 'automatic' as one 'progression'.
[13:04] <@neatsun> [ric|wrk]: if i thought britain is behind i wouldn't be surprized with the tap issue, it's because i know it's modern and progrssed in any other matter it seems odd this (uncomfortable) tradition had survived
[13:04] <[ric|wrk]> perhaps there is a bigger emphasis on water in .il
[13:05] <[ric|wrk]> I don't think I have lived in a house with a "combi" tap, but then I tend to rent cheap (but groovy) houses
[13:06] <[ric|wrk]> which tend to be older and not converted, I am sure if most people were to do up their house they would add a sink with one tap
[13:06] <[ric|wrk]> (maybe)
[13:09] <@neatsun> :)
[13:09] <[ric|wrk]> and if I won the lottery
[13:09] <[ric|wrk]> of course THEN I would have a one tap sink
[13:10] <[ric|wrk]> oooo, the luxury
[13:11] <@neatsun> it's much more expensive?
[13:12] <[ric|wrk]> what a single tap instead of two? yeh...
[13:13] <[ric|wrk]> probably at least twice to price of normal ones
[13:15] <[ric|wrk]> oh, ok.. so I am lying now
[13:15] <[ric|wrk]> :)
[13:27] <moijk> lol, if someone can't afford a mix tap they can't afford the hot water either
[13:28] <moijk> a mix tap is about £50 to £70 for a basic model i would guess.
[13:30] <[ric|wrk]> nah, man, but they are rare... you need to hand them down, father to son
[13:30] <[ric|wrk]> "keep the taps in the family" is a well known proverb
[13:31] <[ric|wrk]> bugger my machine is crashing
[13:31] <Knuy> nice
[13:32] <Knuy> in oslo we gather up at city hall to get our bottles refilled with water
[13:32] <Knuy> daily
[13:33] <moijk> knuy, oh, i didn't know drammen were that far behind oslo. ;)
[13:33] <Knuy> drammen sucks
[13:33] <moijk> I'm deeply insulted. drammen is a city, not a vacum cleaner.
[13:35] <Knuy> yes, keep telling yourself that
[13:37] <@yossarian> heh
[13:40] <moijk> Knuy, I would really like to hear 'why' :)
[13:42] <Knuy> moijk: because it's not Oslo :p    .. I guess hating drammen is just in my blood

...

[15:39] <jannek> yossarian: are you enlightened in the two-tap topic yet?
[15:41] <[ric|wrk]> ...is this something that has gone on for a while?
[15:45] <jannek> well, he asked some other european this question for some days ago.
[15:45] <jannek> and I told him that in sweden, hardly anyone had a 2-tap sink
[15:45] <jannek> noone
[15:46] <jannek> But then we got the conclusion that in france, they probably have it.
[15:48] <jannek> and, I could live with the fact, that you uses 2-tap sinks, if I could see the use of it, but I honestly, cannot.
[15:49] <[ric|wrk]> most british do
[15:49] <[ric|wrk]> I do
[15:50] <jannek> Well, can you find any argument for using that, instead of a combined tap?
[15:50] <jannek> other than the economical
[15:52] <[ric|wrk]> it's traditional
[15:53] <[ric|wrk]> you need to remember most houses have stayed the same in the UK for at least the last 100 years
[15:53] <[ric|wrk]> we didn't have entire villages destroyed during the war which we had to rebuild
[15:55] <jannek> well, we weren't even involved in the war.
[15:55] <[ric|wrk]> who is "we"
[15:55] <jannek> sweden
[15:55] <jannek> and noone uses 2-tap sinks
[15:55] <jannek> don't you guys ever upgrade your homes?
[15:55] <[ric|wrk]> not that much
[15:56] <jannek> can you even buy new 2-tap sinks?
[15:56] <[ric|wrk]> of course
[15:56] <[ric|wrk]> I am amazed at everyone's opinion of this
[15:56] <[ric|wrk]> it's as if you lot have just discovered we don't have electricity or cars or smth
[15:57] <Dashiva> The rest of the world uses sink 2.0, with only one tap
[15:57] <[ric|wrk]> britain has provided some of the most important inventions/discoveries over the years, looks like we didn't rate a single tap sink as being a high priority
[15:57] <[ric|wrk]> you know, along with penecilin, television, steam engines and the like
[15:59] <Dashiva> I guess it falls into the same category as the pint
[16:00] <[ric|wrk]> you going to tell us we should all be drinking litres of beer now?
[16:00] <[ric|wrk]> :)
[16:00] <@yossarian> nah, i can see how it can be more convenient to stay with units you're used to
[16:00] <@yossarian> i cannot, however, see how it can be convenient to use two extreme taps :)
[16:00] <[ric|wrk]> actually I like the metric system as it's base 10
[16:00] <Dashiva> It's a statement. "We're british, we don't need your fancy mixing taps"
[16:00] <[ric|wrk]> convenient? well you could say it's more convenient
[16:01] <[ric|wrk]> and perhaps saves on water consumption
[16:02] <[ric|wrk]> maybe britain was plumbed before other countries and therefore it chose a 2 tap method to start with
[16:02] <Dashiva> So did other countries. But in Norway, we've upgraded since then
[16:03] <Dashiva> You can still find two-tap sinks in remote locations
[16:04] <@yossarian> [ric|wrk], muahaha, more convenient? two taps? forming a puddle in your sink to get the desired temprature? PUHLEEZ
[16:04] <@yossarian> i can somewhat understand the water consumption reasoning
[16:05] <@yossarian> but convenience has has nothing to do with it :)
[16:08] <[ric|wrk]> well if you need the temperature you still need to mix the water right? So you can either do it while you watch the water disappear down the drain
[16:08] <[ric|wrk]> or you can put it in the sink while you work out the right temperature
[16:08] <[ric|wrk]> in the case of the latter you would be as well with 2 taps
[16:09] <Dashiva> What if you're filling some kind of container?
[16:09] <@yossarian> [ric|wrk], i guess you're not up to technology :)
[16:09] <@yossarian> we don't have two knobs which we need to turn
[16:09] <[ric|wrk]> Dashiva: and how often do you need to fill a container with water at a specific temperature?
[16:09] <@yossarian> we have a single somewhat joystick like knob
[16:09] <@yossarian> we leave it in the angle of the correct temprature
[16:10] <@yossarian> then it's just a matter of lifting it
[16:10] <[ric|wrk]> "correct" temperature
[16:10] <[ric|wrk]> for *everything* ?
[16:10] <@yossarian> no, of course not
[16:10] <[ric|wrk]> that's a clever tap
[16:10] <[ric|wrk]> :)
[16:10] <[ric|wrk]> you are right
[16:10] <Dashiva> It requires a supply of clever from the user
[16:10] <[ric|wrk]> your AI taps do have the advantage
[16:10] <@yossarian> but it's not something you turn mindlessly, cold is on the right, hot on the left, middle is "good", it's just a matter of pointing it to the relative location :)
[16:11] <@yossarian> i should show you a picture :)
[16:13] <[ric|wrk]> It's ok, I think I understand the concept
[16:13] <[ric|wrk]> even though it is very advanced
[16:14] <jannek> advanced? This teqhnique has been around for the past 30 years.
[16:14] <@yossarian> he was being sarcastic :)
[16:14] <@yossarian> but i know he's hurting inside
[16:14] <jannek> oh.
[16:14] <[ric|wrk]> heh
[16:14] <jannek> well, we eve have those tempearture controlled ones, for the bathroom.
[16:15] <[ric|wrk]> bathroom? Like a toilet inside the house?
[16:15] <[ric|wrk]> now that's just crazy talk!
[16:15] <jannek> no, the shower.
[16:15] <[ric|wrk]> inside the house? madness....
[16:16] <[ric|wrk]> normally we just tip a barrel of rainwater over ourselves
[16:16] <@neatsun> and what do you do in the summer?
[16:16] <@yossarian> here, ric, http://www.tapshop.net/nss-folder/pictures4/modena_11.jpeg
[16:16] <[ric|wrk]> this is the UK, all that happens is that the rain is warmer, neatsun 
[16:16] <@yossarian> up and down determines flow strength and sides determine temprature
[16:17] <@yossarian> fun, isn't it? :)
[16:17] <[ric|wrk]> that's like something out of bladerunner
[16:17] <[ric|wrk]> or star trek
[16:17] <@neatsun> [ric|wrk]: i was in the uk in spring time and it wasn't raining for days :P
[16:18] <@neatsun> i think uk rain is just a mith
[16:18] <jannek> [ric|wrk]: look, this company even have a page in english. Guess they're trying to get into your market.
[16:18] <jannek> http://www.fmmattsson.com/eng/index.html
[16:18] <jannek> UK has great potential for this kind of products, I assume.
[16:18] <[ric|wrk]> we would need training jannek 
[16:18] <@yossarian> hehe
[16:19] <[ric|wrk]> you couldn't just drop that into the market place like that
[16:19] <jannek> don't you guys have TV-shop?
[16:22] <[ric|wrk]> TV Shop?
[16:22] <@yossarian> "what's this TV you're speaking of?"
[16:22] <@yossarian> go ahead, drown in your sarcasm
[16:23] <@yossarian> or, you could do the sensible thing, and flood the market with cheap proper taps :)
[16:27] <jannek> TV-SHOP? "if you call within 10 minutes, you'll also get this, and this, and not to mention, THIS!"
[16:27] <[ric|wrk]> jannek that sounds like a dream come true. Normally I go to market (a 3 day walk or 1 on a donkey) to get such luxuries
[16:28] <jannek> And you send those TCP packets with pigeons, right? 
[16:28] <jannek> that would explain your lag.
[16:32] <[ric|wrk]> Ping reply from [ric|wrk] in 0.5 seconds  ... no lag
[16:33] <@yossarian> fast pigeon you got there
[16:35] <@yossarian> you don't need to be bitter about this whole tap business, ric :)

...

[16:49] <[ric|wrk]> what would you say would be a good rss news reader?
[16:49] <[ric|wrk]> free that is
[17:03] <@yossarian> i use feeddemon
[17:04] <@yossarian> but you probably would want a feed and a demon, and a container to mix them together ;)
[17:04] <@neatsun> rasha
[17:04] <@neatsun> :P
[17:04] <@yossarian> malasot